Episode 1: Voiceover Artist Kevin Genus

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Voiceover artist Kevin Genus talks about his earliest creative outlets, his history with the French horn, his transition into the tech industry, and the surprising way that launched his career as a voiceover artist.

52 Sketches episode 1 — Kevin Genus


Rob Head (00:18): 52 Sketches.

Damien Burke (00:23): Welcome to 52 Sketches, a podcast about creativity and creative. Here is your host, Rob Head.

Rob Head (00:33): Welcome to the 52 Sketches podcast. I am your host, Rob Head. We are here to talk about creativity and living a creative life practices, habits, strategies for making things. So today we are going to speak with voice artists, Kevin genus. He has been featured on countless commercials, movie trailers, news, teasers, videos, et cetera. You may have heard Kevin’s wonderful voice on Verizon ads or CNN or Saturday night live

Kevin Genus (01:04): Was cooler than Gatorade green. Quizno’s most popular sub just got way more popular. That moves way too fast. Smoothest riding off road, utility vehicles in the world.

Rob Head (01:16): I’m so pleased to have you on the podcast, Kevin, so good to have you. I want to start by saying, I think I would be remiss if I didn’t acknowledge that as we record this it’s June, 2020. The coronavirus pandemic is in full force and I know that you’re living in the vicinity of New York city. And I want to say first and foremost, human to human. I hope you’re well. And your as well. And I really appreciate you taking the time to spend a few minutes talking about creativity with us.

Kevin Genus (01:50): Thank you very much. You know, it’s, it’s funny because on Facebook I was keeping count of all of the friends that I lost in all of this. And you know, I stopped counting at 22 and that count has gone over 30 now and it just man, so yeah. Thank you. I’ve I’ve said a lot of prayers and that’s all I can do, you know? Yeah.

Rob Head (02:22): I appreciate you taking the time in this context. So I want to back up for a moment and say you know, let’s talk about your, your creative upbringing. You know, when you were a kid, did you sing, did you play music? Did you dance? Did you cook draw at, you know, what were the mediums that you were most involved in when you were coming up as a, as a young person?

Kevin Genus (02:42): Okay. So creatively, I was the kid that loved, I loved Legos when, well, even before Legos, you know, my dad used to play saxophone and I would sneak down into the basement. This was, we lived in Idaho, my dad, you know, working with their power from, with the Navy. Yeah. Right. And so I, you know, I went down to the basement. I remember finding this box and opening up this box and then was this list like this? It was like that pulp fiction moment, you know, this golden glow came out of it. And I didn’t know what it was. Oh, I was very young. I was in like kindergarten. I was in kindergarten, but one day they actually had someone come into the school to demonstrate all these musical instruments. And lo and behold, this person pulls out a saxophone and he puts it together in front of us. And I said, Oh,

Rob Head (03:41): We’ve got one of those.

Kevin Genus (03:43): Yeah, we’ve got one. So I remember going home, going down to the basement and putting that thing together. And I don’t know how old that dirty read must have been. I put that thing together and I remember blowing on it and not the whole sax, but just the little neck and the mouthpiece. And that sound came out and I was like, Oh yeah. So I knew I was going to get in trouble if I got caught. And so every, every time I would hear like the car come up to the house, I break everything apart and put it back together and close it.

Kevin Genus (04:20): And so then one day the box disappeared and my dad comes home with this new guitar. Wow. And he traded it in. Wow. Because I didn’t say anything. He had no clue. I was even toying around with it. But years later I would tell him, Hey, this is what happened with that dad. And you know, my dad was the kind of person who would just like break down and start tearing up. Like he had taken the world away from me by doing that, which, you know, at that time, that’s really what had happened, but that’s where I got my first spark.

Rob Head (04:59): It’s a funny story because my first creative gig actually was accompanying my father who would go into the schools and do those shows about introducing instruments. So he would, he did this show called introducing the brass family and he would play trumpet and trombone and French horn and tuba, you know you know, steers, horns and post horns and, you know, Oh, that’s cool. You know, that kind of thing. So that’s a good time. So, so, okay. So you discovered music as a very young kid and then you know, let’s say you were a heightened high school or what, what did you get involved in?

Kevin Genus (05:37): Well, in high school, I actually, you know, by that time I was playing the French horn. Speaking of the brass family. Yeah. I actually started playing that in, in seventh grade. I wanted to play the cello. My parents went down and talked to the band director and they asked him which instruments get kids scholarships into college.

Rob Head (06:02): Let’s get to the,

Kevin Genus (06:04): Yeah. He probably said the bassoon, the bassoon and the French horn, which one is cheaper, the French horn. And so, you know, my parents came home with a French horn. I lamented the whole thing. It was ugly. It was round. It was not what I wanted. And you know, next thing I know I lucked out, we had a, we had a teacher in the school system who had left the New York met and he played the horn. So, you know, here I am, I got a chance to study with the former third cornice of the New York met. And my first year, you know, I was a little Wizkid within instrument. You know, it was funny. I was in seventh grade. I played so well. They put me in the in the high school, this is, this is Delaware. Right. So it’s small, but they put me in the, all the Allstate band in high school. And I had like one first, first chair. I mean, I was

Rob Head (07:02): Nice. So you were hot stuff as a, as a, as a middle schooler, as a junior high school,

Kevin Genus (07:08): Junior high. Yeah. That horn was just like, for, for whatever reason, it was a natural fit for me. So yeah, in high school I continued playing the horn. I spent my time, you know, on bulletin boards, you know, messing around with computers and I’d pretty much decided I’m going to, I’m going to music school. So

Rob Head (07:30): but all these things sort of come together. I’m good because I, you know, we know each other, I, I sort of know your backstory. Let’s talk about how you got from a French horn whiz kid to, to voice artist. So kind of, yeah, what’s the two minute version of that.

Kevin Genus (07:48): The quick and short is I left Peabody and, you know, cause I’m sorry. Yeah. If I end up going to Peabody conservatory, after two years there, I went on my year of service. I’m a Bahá’í and Bahá’ís are—were encouraged back then. I don’t know if they still are today—to go on year a year of service, which is where you’re going. You serve humanity for a year. And I chose to go to Lewis Gregory Bahá’í Institute in South Carolina. And they had a radio station down there,

Rob Head (08:19): A radio station. Yeah. You have a radio voice.

Kevin Genus (08:23): Well, I, I, yeah. I, I didn’t back then which was actually pretty good, but I remember hearing these people talk and it was like, how come every time I say something, it doesn’t sound like that. And it didn’t. And so, you know, that was my first real introduction to voiceover. I wouldn’t call it voiceover, I would say to radio copy because voiceover and radio copy are two totally different things. I would say,

Rob Head (08:59): Right. Which you understand better than the rest of us.

Kevin Genus (09:02): Right. Yeah. And just for your audience, radio copy is “We’re wheeling and dealing, tonight at 8! blah-blah-blah-blah-blah!” That’s that’s radio copy. But you know, you ever listened to Morgan Freeman, that’s voiceover, “we stand and cheer and celebrate as one. We forget all the things that make us different.” You know, that’s, that’s what in the industry we, we consider to be voiceover, the radio stuff we call puke. So,

Rob Head (09:37): The voiceover people do. We all have our ivory towers.

Rob Head (09:41): Oh, some glass, some glass.

Kevin Genus (09:44): So I was working at Verizon. I was a programmer analyst and the we were doing this massive upgrade and we needed a way to inform the whole company what was happening and the upgrades were going to happen in little chunks. So we figured we would put together this 45 minute presentation, which would get everybody away from their desk long enough for all these Unix boxes, you know, windows machines to do whatever they had to do.

Rob Head (10:14): Right. This is a rolling out a windows upgrade for the autonomous

Kevin Genus (10:18): Windows upgrade all the, you know, like office stuff, you know, basic workflow. Okay. So we figure, okay, we’re going to do this presentation. We’re going to have people in this conference room. We’ll just give them orders, lunch and all this other stuff, and that can hang out and, you know, be entertained during that period of wait.

Rob Head (10:43): Right. That’s a great strategy. Anytime you can get people to sit for a half an hour, if you give them free food

Kevin Genus (10:50): And universal law, the key here was that you could not do these upgrades off hours because you just didn’t know if things were going to work and people could do their jobs when they came in the next morning. Yes. It was just, yeah, we had to get this. And so we were pretty confident that the upgrade was going to take place. But when we went to go get a presentation, made that people said $8,000 and you know, I had played music. I had my cheap little ProTools, double one at home. And I, but I didn’t know flash. So I told my manager at the time, listen, I’ll program, I’ll write the, I’ll do the presentation and flash, but you’ve got to give me the week off to learn it. And he says, well, what happens if you don’t learn it? I said, what do we have to lose? We just go pay $8,000. Oh no, no, no. You’re going to learn this stuff. So I took, I took three days to learn as much flashes, like good. And then I built this, this presentation. And I remember I had gotten in touch with someone at Verizon and I begged and pleaded for them to give me the James Earl Jones, you know the donut, you know, Verizon, I did everything I could to get that.

Rob Head (12:16): Right. And we should mention, this is what James Jones was literally the voice of Verizon at the time.

Kevin Genus (12:22): Yeah. This, this was like 2003, 2004. And so they said no. And they explained to me, James Earl Jones was like $75,000. If I put that in the file, which, you know, 75,000 plus 8,000 was definitely not going to happen. I mean, it was crazy. I went in there and I just did my best impersonation of James Earl Jones. And so on the day of the rollouts, my was like, Stretton this stuff, he’s all happy. This is all gonna make me look good. What’s that

Rob Head (13:05): Indeed, it will

Kevin Genus (13:09): Roll outs happen. And

Rob Head (13:11): Now the whole department and the whole office is hearing your voice.

Kevin Genus (13:14): Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, so the presentation went on for like actually 30, 35 minutes and it was just me narrating the whole thing. And and then at the end was who they thought was James Earl Jones. And they started asking my manager, how did you get James Earl Jones?

Rob Head (13:39): Well, yeah, you’re not kidding about impersonation. Wow.

Kevin Genus (13:44): And so my manager was like, no, no, no, that’s not. That’s one of our own, that’s not James Earl Jones. And, you know,

Rob Head (13:54): Yes. As a manager that was, he should get full credit for that. He took full credit for it.

Kevin Genus (14:00): He trusted me. He did. But you know, when they found out who it was, they they had me begin recording Verizon commercials after that. And you know, little did I know James Earl Jones had been, I’m just going to say under the weather. And they had reached a point where they were going to transition off to a new voice. So they found me temporarily and you know, it’s actually pretty cool. Cause you know, now, you know, I know all these people today, but I think for maybe about a year, eight months to a year now, for me to say months to a year is like really like one or two sessions you do. And they just roll for that period of time. Then they hired Rod Houston who just phenomenal. You hear Rod all the time on CBS sports. Right,

Rob Head (14:58): Right.

Kevin Genus (15:00): Yeah. Go figure. But yeah, Rod is, you know, straight out of Philadelphia really. I mean, it’s really cool brother. Hi. I really like Rob, Rob, cause I’m talking to you, but rod yeah, yeah.

Rob Head (15:14): Let’s, let’s talk about so you, you sort of stumble into this new career doing, doing narration, voiceover. This is not something you studied. I mean, you mentioned that you spent a year at Lewis Gregory, a radio station in South Carolina, but you hadn’t, you’d studied French horn, not, not voiceover. So how did you train, how did you, how did you level up to the point where you could do these national commercials with confidence and a sense of professionalism?

Kevin Genus (15:48): The first, the Verizon job was a wake up call. Yeah. It took me all day. Tons of takes and you know, but it was, it was fun. I left with a hoarse throat and you know, I, I knew it shouldn’t be this, this is not what’s supposed to happen. Right. So I really looked in earnest for people who are actually, well, what I did was this, I, I wrote a scraper that would scrape all things that said voiceover or VO and yes. And lo and behold, I mean the, the, the, the inner net at that point was, you know, it was big enough that people have actually started to advertise themselves. And I came across a number of voice talent. And when I would click play, I would recognize the voices, these with all the people that are heard at night. And, and, and it’s funny because the coach that I found, she asked me the same question you had. And I, I told her the same story, you know, I called every talent who popped up on my scraper and I asked them, you know, who did you study with? Who did you study with? And I would write down the names and I kept a little database and I would add click plus plus plus plus, and eventually like one name popped up to the top. And that was crabbiness.

Kevin Genus (17:19): Oh yes. Most definitely. Wow. That’s why I called this lady up. And the first question she had was, how did you find my name?

Rob Head (17:29): Well, I wrote this script…

Kevin Genus (17:31): Yeah. And I told her how, and she was like, wow, I had never heard that one before.

Rob Head (17:39): She’s like, I understood this word, but I don’t know what any of that means, basically you found a mentor, you found a, somebody to

Kevin Genus (17:50): I wouldn’t say a mentor, I would say a coach. And now, now the way Marise worked back then was she gave you this horror story about the failure of going into voiceover, because, you know, Marissa is one of those people who she tells you, I don’t waste your time. You don’t waste my time. Right. And, you know, as long as we both understand that, great. And so I didn’t call her back for a year. I was so scared after she explained to me the amount of work required. And so a year goes by and

Rob Head (18:26): You’re, you’re working during that time. Yeah. Okay.

Kevin Genus (18:29): Because I was still working. Yep. No, no, not, not so much voiceover. I mean, I was doing, I was still working at Verizon and at this point I had started working, you know, weekends at radio stations. I’m quite embarrassed to admit I worked at radio America, one of two black people.

Rob Head (18:49): Yeah. I think I recall. And I remember remember an attempt to create the, the alternative. And anyway, the whole thing is

Kevin Genus (18:59): By the way, the other black person who worked there is now at HBO. So it turned out great for both of us. Yeah.

Rob Head (19:10): You take the gigs that are offered to you as best you can.

Kevin Genus (19:16): But yeah. So, so I was still working my day job and I had my, my weekend stuff going on and I called up Maurice and I said, Marissa, I’m ready. What do I have to do? Nice. And, and she said, well, Kevin, first of all, you got to stop using your white voice. You gotta stop using the voice that, and, and, and, and I can’t stress this enough because I didn’t even realize right. That I was doing this. And this is why I recognize this so readily amongst other African American black, you know, however people want to identify themselves. She said, Kevin, if you, if you listen to, to the pitch of your voice, when you finish a phrase, that’s where your voice is. And I said, wow, I’m never down there. And she, so she said, I give you permission to scare the hell out of kids, right?

Rob Head (20:19): This is fascinating because Kevin, you know, it, it seems impossible to separate creative work from the social issues of the society we live in, you know, like the social justice work that a lot of people are involved in that I know that you and I are involved in is inextricable from from any kind of professional work, serving the community,

Kevin Genus (20:44): Right? It’s like you have one foot that world, but in order to be yourself, you have to step in, you have to step outside of it. And it’s, it’s, it’s a real wake up call. I mean, I, it’s one of the reasons why I grew my ugly locks because I wanted to experience the non-conformance. Well, I’ve seen beautiful locks. I’m making a very clear distinction. Mine are like total locks. Right. I don’t call them them. I don’t do anything. It’s what God intended and that, but I do that because even around black people, they look at me and they’re like, dude, you gotta do something with that.

Rob Head (21:31): So, okay. So you got them out just as a way of saying I am who I am,

Kevin Genus (21:35): Right? Yeah. Yeah. And so it’s like you step outside, outside of the reality that people have created, which is, you know, it’s false and you just let the creator create. Right. And that applies, you know, the big man upstairs and to the little man inside. And so it’s, it’s really, I learned volumes about myself. Mo most importantly, it’s like, there are so many things I just don’t care about anymore. And, you know, urgently this urgently that, well, no, it’s urgent for you because you’re on someone else’s timeline, but it’s not for me. Right.

Rob Head (22:16): Right. Right. So it’s almost as if I say, ironically that artistic growth has a lot to do with personal development and understanding 100% self-awareness yeah.

Kevin Genus (22:31): You just have to be, and a lot of people are more concerned about acceptance and to achieve acceptance, you have to become what other people define us. Right. Yeah.

Rob Head (22:47): Right. So let’s talk. So it sounds to me that you committed to this career as a voiceover artist, and you found a great coach and you worked at it you were very, the story you told about finding the coach shows a lot of tenacity. So you pursued it with some vigor. So let’s talk a little bit about, you know, what are some of the practices that you learned? Do you have daily practices, especially early in your career? How do you care for your instrument and, you know are the things that you’re doing on the business, you know, to keep the career moving forward, like, let’s talk about what, what did you learn? What did you do on a daily basis that helped you

Kevin Genus (23:28): Move forward? Okay. So in this industry, there’s really in my opinion, well, what I’ll address, what I’ve done to keep my instrument going, then I’ll answer the other question. Yeah. initially I did all the exercises that people talked about. Me, Mi, Ma, Mo, Mu. Me, Mi, Ma, Mo, Mu. all those kinds of things. Right,

Rob Head (23:53): Right. Very similar to what a singer

Kevin Genus (23:57): Exactly. Like the pencil and the mouth or, or, or I, I ordered a bag of corkscrews because you hold those between your teeth and you read your copy like that, and it forces those muscles to over enunciate. And so initially it’s all about this muscular development that typically, you know, any it’s muscle memory, you’re doing it all day. Those muscles do get tired. If you’re doing it wrong, they get tired faster. So that was the initial part of what I was doing. Just the actual training of the muscles, right?

Rob Head (24:41): Of your instrument. Yeah.

Kevin Genus (24:44): Typically, I would say embouchure. But I’m not playing an instrument any longer, but yeah, I didn’t

Rob Head (24:50): Once a brass player, always a brass player.

Kevin Genus (24:52): Yeah, exactly. But for my voice, I had to, I had to get used to getting comfortable talking down here all the time. And it wasn’t that, that I was afraid to talk down here. My voice actually changed again, in that process, it was deeper than what Merissa had heard. And so what happens is, is if I just, if I talk in this range for like, say five minutes, it’ll stay this way for the rest of the day. And there are, there are some people I, I talked to and they, Oh, that’s your morning voice, Kevin. No, no. My voice is a whole lot deeper than this. But so, so that was also part of the, part of the practice, you know, just getting your voice in the range that you’re going to work in.

Kevin Genus (25:50): But then, you know, it’s funny because once you, I had, I had formed all these relationships because of my phone calls, you know, incessant phone calls to people, they, the guys that were making seven figures, they were cool. I mean, if you run into people who are really doing this and they love their work, if you ask them for help, help, they share it with you, that was new for me because I was so used to the opposite. But in this particular industry, I don’t know if it’s this way with all of them. They’re there. They’re really cool about this stuff. So one of the guys told me, Kevin, you’re talking louder than we work. So we always work very quietly and your voice would never get tired if you stay in this whisper in this whisper pitch, you know? And so we call this as a whisper read, you know, tonight eight, seven central, you know, it’s that low volume. Right. And that has its caveats too, because you have to get right up on the microphone to do that, which brings us to the next training process, which is Mike technique.

Rob Head (27:07): Yeah. In a way your instrument is your voice. And in another way, your instrument is your mic.

Kevin Genus (27:12): Yes. It’s totally connected. And you have to be able to place your voice and use your, so I guess the easiest way to practice this, some people use a candle, an inch and a half, two inches away from your face, and you should be able to read your copy without that moving.

Rob Head (27:31): Oh, I see. Yeah. Wow.

Kevin Genus (27:34): That’s because we don’t want to pop the peas and all that other kinds of stuff.

Rob Head (27:41): Interesting. Yeah. So you’re, you’re preventing yourself from actually doing all the sounds that I’m hearing

Kevin Genus (27:47): Exactly. Right. And, and when you hear, so when you listen to the TV, you know, these promos on TV, these people are masters and the thought process has all, they fixed it in post. No, they didn’t post sounding exactly like it does right there. And, and that’s really it. And, and so, but it takes a lot of practice to get to the point that you don’t pop those peas that way. And it’s funny because I can sit here on this little mic that I’m using right now and I can pop peas all day. But if I go in my booth and I do it from there, forget it. There’s not going to be pop PS. There’s not going to be, it’s like a whole different, you know, Kevin thumbs out. Yeah. It’s like Beyonce talks about her alter ego. My coach used to always say, you wear a different pair of shoes. You wear one pair of shoes for one type of read. And, you know, you have some that you wear for trailer. You have some that you wear for you know, your sports promos, you have business shoes for anything. That’s a corporate, you know, narration and you never wear those shoes outside of the booth. Those are tools to keep you in that character. Keep you grounded throughout that whole session.

Rob Head (29:13): Yeah. Yeah. People say have a place to do certain activities, right. If they’re going, gonna have a habit of writing on a daily basis, then you know, there’s a desk for it. Or you have the habit of, you know, practice music in the same room, you know or whatever that you don’t use for watching TV or whatever. The other activities.

Kevin Genus (29:34): When I started looking for voice talent, I thought everyone lived in LA. I was Northern Virginia at the time. How Douglas, how Douglas lived in Virginia up along? I think it was route 15. That goes up into Harper’s ferry in Maryland.

Rob Head (29:54): Oh yeah. Westbound is across the river in West Virginia actually. Right when you cross.

Kevin Genus (30:00): Yeah. Right now you have to understand how was always my favorite voice, talent of all voice talent. He’s the guy who

Rob Head (30:11): He read like this. Got it.

Kevin Genus (30:15): I can’t even do it. I sound like an idiot,

Rob Head (30:17): But he’s got kind of a sing song kind of quality. Yeah.

Kevin Genus (30:20): Yes. With an, with the, with like the smile that was just like on comparable. He would read a horror film with a smile and you would be like, I feel like grandpa read that to me. That was housed or every, yeah. He used to be the voice for the a and E or the WB when the web first came out. That was all how, and unfortunately he’s passed away. But when I first met him face to face, it was that one of Maurice’s workshops. And, and I’m, I’m mentioning this for a specific reason. And so they bring how Douglas and it’s like the whole room melted. How was, Oh yeah. How was like, like I’ll put it like this. If you ever see five men in the trailer, you see Don LaFontaine and all the other voice characters, but there’s a reason why, how is the only voiceover in the film?

Kevin Genus (31:21): And it’s because even those five people knew how bug list is, you know? Yeah. Just, just how did things his way, because as he said, I don’t have the same kind of voice that these guys have. So if he did three takes, every take was going to be different each. And this is what he, he explained to us. Every word has its own life. It’s got it. Start. It’s got it. And it’s got its middle. And so every take, each word should be different. And if you are really into treating the copy as an organic essence, that’s what’s going to happen. You don’t have to force this stuff to happen. It’s just gonna happen by itself.

Rob Head (32:15): Yeah. You’re reminding me of, you know, some of the master actors of our general, each generation, we just lost Ian home this week. And I’ve heard many stories about him that suggest that he was one of those actors that every take was a work of genius. And, you know, the challenge was, you know, in an editing room, which ones which works of genius to, to fit, we can piece these all. And they’re all, they all

Kevin Genus (32:40): Work together. How do we choose? And then what do we do with what’s left on the floor? You know, I don’t want to throw that out either. But how, how told how told me one day during lunch, he said, Kevin, I always pause before each take. He he was into yoga. I can’t think of what you call the things that people who do yoga do, but basically, or other mantras. I don’t know if they’re mantras. I really don’t know.

Rob Head (33:17): You mean like the physical activity or something more mental?

Kevin Genus (33:19): No, it was like unto a prayer. Yeah. It might be a mantra, but well, what he would do before every take, he would get quiet and he would go through this process and then he would do his delivery. Here it is. And so that’s one of the things that I borrowed from how, you know you know, I will say I, as a Bahá’í, I’ll say my removers of difficulties. And so I do that before each take silently to myself. And so my booth becomes not just, you know, I’m not just going in here to do work. It’s, it’s more or less my own, a place for worship as well. Yeah.

Rob Head (34:05): Yeah. You know, this is, this is fascinating because I think it gets to the heart of creativity. It’s like, there’s a mysterious process happening here. We are connecting to something that’s a little bit bigger than us, or maybe infinitely bigger than us. And and, and it’s impossible to separate creativity from that, that mysterious sense of human spirituality.

Kevin Genus (34:29): That’s what he used to talk about. He would say, I read this in Paul, Paul Hindemith’s books. He said a heightened. It never said that he created anything. Each one of us could reach up to the same piece of music and pull it down and transcribe it.

Rob Head (34:49): Right? Yes. If we train our instrument because it does. Yeah. Yeah. You do have to have honed your instrument too, to be able to tap into that, you know, in a way that expresses itself through our own personal, you know, whatever we’ve learned. There’s, there’s the, like the inspiration and then there’s craft. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Beautiful. wow. It’s been one, so wonderful. It Kevin, it’s just obviously a joy just to listen to your voice. And I really appreciate you sharing so much of your journey and look forward to to what the future holds as well.

Kevin Genus (35:31): Awesome. Likewise, 52 Sketches. Love that name. Wonderful.

Rob Head (35:38): Yes. Okay. Have a great, have a great day.

Kevin Genus (35:41): Take care.

Damien Burke (35:41): The 52 Sketches podcast is a product of 52 Sketches, makers of earlywords.io, daily, private, stream-of-consciousness writing, to clear your mind and unlock your creativity.