Episode 5: Rock Musician Arden Leigh

Subscribe: RSS | Apple | Spotify | Google | Sticher | Overcast | iHeart | YouTube

Singer and songwriter Arden Leigh talks about starting out as a musical theatre geek, finding new ways to touch the sublime, and her current work as a rock musician, writer, and facilitator.

52 Sketches episode 5 — Arden Leigh


Rob Head 0:03 52 Sketches, Episode Five, rock musician, Arden Leigh

Jennifer Head 0:12 Welcome to 52 Sketches, a podcast about creativity and creative practices. here’s your host, Rob Head.

Rob Head 0:21 Welcome to the 52 Sketches Podcast. I am your host, Rob Head. We’re here to talk about living a creative life, creativity, hats and practices, habits, strategies for making wonderful things. Today, I’m so pleased to welcome Arden Leigh, a performing artist and facilitator living and working in Los Angeles. Arden Leigh is the creator and facilitator of the repatterning project, of course in understanding the human operating system and repatterning trauma imprints and social conditioning in order to achieve creative freedom. She is also the creator and frontwoman of any pop rock project Arden and the wolves

little taste of who can you trust by Arden in the wolves? Love that track is so good. So welcome, Arden. Lee,

Arden Leigh 1:17 thank you so much for having me. It’s a pleasure.

Rob Head 1:19 Wonderful. So it’s so good to have you on the show. You know, I always like to start these interviews by going back to your backstory, you know, let’s write the graphic novel backstory for for you. And tell me a little bit about your creative upbringing. Did you sing dance draw, play an instrument cook at right? You know, what were you involved in? growing up?

Arden Leigh 1:41 Oh, yeah, I was always a musical theatre geek. For sure. Yeah, I grew up on, you know, I grew up on Broadway musicals, grew up thinking that I was going to, you know, going to go into acting and specifically go into musical theater. It was sort of my, my dream as a kid was to be on Broadway. And then I got to NYU and 911 happened.

Rob Head 2:06 Wow. And what timing?

Arden Leigh 2:08 Yeah, I know. Right. And, and the face of theater really changed after that. So, you know, there were there were fewer producers who were willing to take as many creative risks and Broadway ended up looking a lot like a lot like Disney and a lot like Mamma Mia. And the things that I had really loved growing up, they’re really, really more sort of, like, more psychologically intense musical theater such as like, like Jason Robert Brown with like, songs for a new world. And you know, there were the two editions of the wild party that came out the same year, you know, like, interesting, creative kind of dark and innovative stuff just kind of went by the wayside, because people didn’t want to take those creative risks anymore. So there I was, you know, having graduated NYU and being like, I don’t even really know if I want to audition for the things that are going up. Now, this is not what I envisioned for myself. And I think really, that my relationship with theater when I was growing up, was that theater was the one place when I was a child where I could really touch the sublime. I think that was my connection. And so so I find that now, I find ways of meeting those needs that don’t necessarily need to go through theater itself. But of course, when I was a child growing up like that was if you imagine it in like a Joseph Campbell kind of sense, you know, between like, the ordinary world and the and the mystical world, you know, the world is

Rob Head 3:35 sublime. Sure, that theater was a special world.

Arden Leigh 3:38 Yeah, that’s how I accessed that. So thankfully, now, now that I’ve gone insane, and just lost my mind, I can access that whenever I want.

Rob Head 3:48 Yeah, it’s interesting that you bring up 911 because I feel like we’re in a sort of a parallel point in history right now, where all the rules are changed in the pandemic. And you know, it’s, it’s sort of a new world, there’s, there are no shows right now. There’s no, you know, no music shows no theater, nothing. Yeah. And so we’re in this unknown territory. How has that changed your approach?

Arden Leigh 4:11 Yeah, you know, what, it hasn’t really changed much at all, for me, in any anything Actually, I, I count myself, I count myself incredibly lucky. That actually, if anything, I have managed to find a lot of personal silver linings in this quarantine. Um, and this has more to do with my work in the repat earning project naturally, there’s a lot of us out there who have a bit of a more, you know, spiritual or regular kind of bent, who have been feeling the fact that 2020 was going to be a really big and really transformative year. I don’t think all of us knew exactly what it would look like.

Rob Head 4:47 Anybody predicted this? Yeah,

Arden Leigh 4:50 no, yeah, exactly. But we knew something big was coming. And the work that I’ve been doing on myself since 2016, and with other people since 2018, has absolutely led to, you know, has been all the prep work to lead to this place. Essentially, the work that I do in the repatterning project is kind of like Marie Kondo for your mind body system. Right? Yeah. Yeah. If you imagine that, you know, all of us are born with these really brilliant human computers. And we’re not given a user’s manual as to how they work. And so we get frustrated thinking that we’re running programs on them that we assume should be working in certain ways, but which actually aren’t running in the ways that they’re supposed to. And it’s not our fault. It’s just we’ve installed a faulty program, right? It’s either right dira a virus or it’s an app, it’s just taking up too much bandwidth and not actually doing what it’s supposed to do. And that’s the way that we look at our at our patterns, our beliefs, and our habits. And the mixed blessing. You know, that’s, I mean, that’s a really awfully optimistic, you know, to the, to the point of perhaps bypassing, and I don’t subscribe to doing that, you know, way of describing this way of describing this, this tragedy that’s happening to our country. But the one thing that it has done it is is, is that it has shown us everywhere, that we have systems in place that are not working, or health, there’s obviously not working our preparation for something for something like this was obviously not working our education system, obviously not working. The wealth gap, right, late capitalism itself. Again, we have Jeff Bezos, who’s on track to be a trillionaire right now through His grace and exploitation his of his employees through you know, Amazon and Whole Foods and whatever else or the world. You know,

Rob Head 6:51 right. My former boss

Arden Leigh 6:52 is becoming Oh, gosh, yeah.

All right. So so we’re just, we’re just gone right to the jugular. On this one right here. Yeah.

Rob Head 7:01 Yes. We, we hung out in the cafeteria a couple times about 20 years.

Arden Leigh 7:08 I’m so sorry.

Rob Head 7:11 Yeah, it’s a fascinating, but anyway. Yeah. So it’s, it’s really interesting for you to frame things as as programming and as like apps installed. My business partner, Damien and I both are software developers, in addition to being artists of various descriptions, and, and so this is sort of exactly the metaphor that resonates with us. So this, this type of work that you’re doing now, I want to back up again, for a moment and sort of fill in the gap between your your sort of childhood and it sounds like maybe you went to NYU for undergrad? Did you? You know, how did you get from there to here? You know, did you did you have important moments, important mentors, you know, how did that transition happen? Oh, yeah. If it’s a transition, in fact,

Arden Leigh 7:58 for sure. Um, well, yeah, there were several transitions. The way that I can, that I can best describe it, is, we go back to that place where, you know, I’ve graduated NYU, and I’ve invested now, you know, a whole ton of time and energy into a theater degree, and then come on life. No longer Yeah, I come out into a life where, where the kind of theater that is being produced is no longer no longer sparking joy, shall we say, Okay, this is not what I had necessarily planned for. Right. And I did a couple regional shows coming out of college. And I was lucky, I got to do some, some shows I really liked, you know, I got to do I got to understudy Sally Bowles in cabaret. Like that was very much. Yeah, but more and more, I was just seeing the fact that I had I signed up for this life where I thought I was going to be, you know, suffering for my art, but that it would be worth it. Right where I was gonna be like starving in a tiny apartment apartment in New York. Eating Canada leads

Rob Head 8:56 you to be doing great work. Yeah.

Arden Leigh 8:59 Right. But it would be worth it. Yeah. And that’s what everyone told me growing up, oh, you’re gonna you’re gonna be a starving artist, you’re gonna, you know, and I heard and I internalized all those messages, you know, which, right? That’ll be relevant later, you know, naturally. Okay. Right. Talking about internalizing programming and looking at the beliefs of what we what we believe is possible for ourselves. So right from there, um, I was bartending, I was miserable. And I ended up through a series of strange events, um, which involves getting involved with a theatre company in New York that produced the first play that I wrote, and like many theatre groups, they were, they were very larvae and very kinky. There’s a lot of crossover. Right? Okay, sure. That’s not that’s not a far leap. Right. Like you’re with me on the right. Yeah, right. So it was that brand of theater people. And that was how I was introduced to the BDSM scene, and I ended up within a year. I ended up applying for a job as a professional dominatrix.

Rob Head 10:06 Okay. So was this something that you would never have imagined? You know, three years earlier? or?

Arden Leigh 10:13 Yeah, well, it’s interesting looking back at it now, because certainly I would not have imagined that three years earlier, but it is certainly safe to say that I was very, I was sexually I was very much a late bloomer. And when this world opened up to me, it was like, all of a sudden, I saw other possibilities for myself outside of my current ego constructs, you know, that I had been that good girl had gone to Catholic school, I was always a rule follower, you know, like I was, I was very much like a good girl kind of archetype. And involving myself in this world and finding out that there were ways, you know, ideally, of playing safely and that things could be consensual and, and all this stuff, although, to be honest, I had real, I really had no grip on an understanding of informed consent at that point, because I didn’t really have a lot of personal boundaries, but right, um, but basically, I got involved in that world. So and from there,

Rob Head 11:20 from there to neuro linguistic programming, of course.

Arden Leigh 11:23 Yeah, yeah, actually. And actually, it really was there from there to neuro linguistic programming, because hypnosis is also a fetish. And I met a DOM who gave a training at our house who is who is a hypnotist, who is a hypno. Dog. So So there we are, you’re gonna regret asking me my origin story, because this morning, you want me to talk about all of it, but

I have autism so.

So I asked everyone to stop. Yeah,

Rob Head 11:57 yeah, bad boundaries. Alright, so never quite thought of it this way. But that’s it. That particular style of relationship is sort of an explicit version of an unhealthy codependent. relationship or dependent relationship.

Arden Leigh 12:16 Exactly. Isn’t that fascinating? And yeah, BDSM community will absolutely advocate for their right to practice BDSM. Right. So one of the things that I say quite often in my course, is a phrase that that goes check your temples for termites, right? Mm hmm. And what I mean by that is that my codependent issues head in the sanctuary of sexual freedom.

Rob Head 12:41 Right,

Arden Leigh 12:42 yeah. Right. So what happened then is that I was so invested, I call it like the Jurassic Park theory of beliefs, right? My scientists were so concerned about whether we could that we didn’t stop to think about whether we should.

Rob Head 12:58 Right,

Arden Leigh 12:59 right, I got the right, I have the freedom to engage in this relationship with these power dynamics and not be persecuted or shamed by outside people. I’m hearing that Yeah, yeah, that prevented me from looking at it with a critical eye either, because anything, any kind of criticism sounded like kink shaming. Right, right. And I would said, I would have said, Don’t kink shame me. This is my this is my sexual orientation. This is who I am. Right. Right. And it felt that way, for sure. Mm hmm. So naturally, what I wasn’t looking at was a whole ton of trauma that was underneath that that was also playing out in this codependent relationship on loop. Right.

Rob Head 13:39 Right. Sure. So

Arden Leigh 13:40 I ended up getting into NLP actually. Because, uh, actually, because the man who I was in the relationship with was into things like NLP for mind control, and seduction and pickup and things like that. And we were, I was also in that world.

Rob Head 14:00 So these are all these are all iterations of the similar need within you to outsource your, your boundaries. So there’s, as you said,

Arden Leigh 14:09 exactly, yeah, none of which I was aware of at the time. So that sort of leads us to what I teach today, which is that in 2016, four years ago, I had a spiritual awakening. By which, by that I basically mean that I got to the end, the logical conclusion of the end of my patterns, and I saw that I had reached the Law of Diminishing Returns, right? I reached that point where I am doing the same thing over and over again, and it’s not working.

Rob Head 14:43 Mm hmm.

Arden Leigh 14:45 And at some point, I have to admit to myself, that I know nothing, Jon Snow, and right, I need to throw up my hands and admit that, you know, I was getting out of a sort of situation, shift At that time, where it was like, wow, how did I let things get this bad? How did I? How did I let things get so bad that I am deeply emotionally entangled with a man who doesn’t even notice that I’ve left until six weeks later? You know, how did how did? How was I so stuck in these what I now understand to be people pleasing? Right? Right? How was I so stuck in these patterns that I had learned? That, that I really genuinely believe were going to work for me? And obviously,

Rob Head 15:36 Mm hmm. So, yeah. So how do we come around to so it sounds like today, you have really two things going on in your life, you have your workshops, and you have your work as an artist. So yeah, so talk to me a little bit about what your life looks like now, like, how do you? What are your daily practices? How do you how do you care for yourself? You know, you’re a singer, among other things. So how do you care for your instrument? How do you? How do you keep your life healthy, so that you’re able to continue to produce and create?

Arden Leigh 16:13 Yeah, that’s a great question. Well, I would, I would say that the way that I maintain now, is precisely by doing all the work between 2016. And now that I did to repattern. Right, doing all of that self awareness work and excavating those patterns that I had that weren’t working for me, right, the patterns, beliefs and habits and unconscious trauma imprints and all that and going and doing that work, you know, whether whether it was doing the research, you know, compiling, you know, information that I learned in a ton of books, which nobody what I was undergoing, you know, when I was seeking traditional therapy, or traditional psychiatric practices, you know, or being medicated in my 20s, which no one had told me about, everyone was like, Oh, well, you must just be anxious or depressed, right? No one was looking into the fact that actually, I, you know, I had no boundaries, I was in a codependent abusive relationship. And the reason I had no boundaries was because of childhood trauma, right? I just hadn’t put any of those things together,

Rob Head 17:13 right. And so instead of addressing it from the perspective that you have agency to change your life, they just said, well, you have these problems, you have these symptoms, here’s the medications that treat those symptoms.

Arden Leigh 17:24 Right, right. You have anxiety, you have depression, you might even have borderline personality disorder, right? Don’t Don’t get me started on that one. Because that’s like that. That’s borderline personality disorder, is something that describes a cluster of symptoms that is almost completely indistinguishable from PTSD, and especially from early complex PTSD. So it’s like, we slap labels on people, and we give them these these diagnoses. And so if you’re asking me about my current practices today, it’s like, I feel great. Are you kidding? I wake up in the day, and I get to do work that I love. I like to think of our bodies as houses that we live in, that our spirits live in, right? And if we are stockpiling all of these trauma responses, and repressing, you know, all of the things within ourselves, all the experience and all of the emotions that we haven’t had time to make space for. It’s like living in a hoarder house, you know?

Rob Head 18:26 Yeah, we don’t have space to live. We’ve. We’re all Yeah. Under piles of baggage. Our baggage. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So the process

Arden Leigh 18:35 of re patterning is essentially going in and Marie Kondo being a hoarder house.

Rob Head 18:41 Mm hmm. So this is fascinating. Yeah. Have you seen the tool that, that we built early words is is is a version of mourning pages that Julia Cameron describes in the artists way? And, and that’s sort of the objective there too, is to is to write out, you know, three pages worth of just the mental noise in your head and the first thing in the morning, and and I guess it’s a it’s not unlike your Marie Kondo analogy.

Arden Leigh 19:13 Yeah. So that’s a daily practice. That’s like taking out the trash every day, right?

Rob Head 19:17 Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Arden Leigh 19:19 Yeah. Yeah. So what I do is essentially is, is go through the whole house. Right? Daily, the daily practices that I do now would be about as effective as taking out the everyday trash in a hoarder house. If I hadn’t gone through patterning, right,

Rob Head 19:41 right. Yeah, right. So the pattern Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. So you not only are you teaching these, these workshops, but you’re also a singer, and you’re writing books and so you’re, you’ve somehow you’re finding time to write music, and write Books and and and how does that look? Is that? Is that something you do on a schedule? Is that something you do? As the spirit moves? You? How does that work?

Arden Leigh 20:08 Yeah, I would say it’s, um, I would say it’s about 80% spirit and 20% schedule. And I decided at the start of 2016, right around that time when I had my, you know, my awakening or repatterning dispense, depending on you know, how spiritual of a perspective you want to look at it for sure. I decided at that point, I was like, I was like, you know, what, I’m at the point in my life, where I’ve let I’ve let too much kind of fall by the wayside, you know, in terms of that initial disappointment with preparing myself for a career in theater, and then realizing that that was not going to manifest in the way that I had hoped. I was like, I’ve always loved your

Rob Head 20:49 values changed. Yeah. And yeah, you went to the mountain, but the mountain was different when you got there. Precisely.

Arden Leigh 20:57 Yeah. So 2016 was the time in my life where I had to say, all right, given where I am, right now, what do I want to do? And how am I going to exist as a creative in this world? And was what is important to me? Because I said, you know, acting singing, you know, I’d gone to, I’d taken some film classes, and here I am in LA, and I write books, and what am I going to do? So I decided, I said, All right, I’m going to commit to my band, I’m going to commit to my identity as a singer, because it is the one creative realm where I know that I can have creative control. I can write my own songs, I can produce my own videos, and they’ll be ideas that will come from me, the problem with theater that I had was once I got there, the kind of theater that I wasn’t, that I wanted to do wasn’t really existing anymore. And even if I went into film, acting, I would be at the mercy of being cast by other people. And I’d be like, well, right.

Rob Head 21:56 Are these a very small cog? In a giant machine?

Arden Leigh 22:00 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And like, you know, it’s like, an actor could work for a long time, and then get like some, you know, like, lead role on a cop show, you know, and be like, Yes, I finally got my big job. But I look at that and be like, I want to be a cop.

But that’s not what I signed up for it. So

Rob Head 22:19 yeah, so I just this is fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. I, I wanted to, to, to drill down on this because it’s, it’s interesting to look at, if you were to pull out like a mega trend of the 21st century, and you look at the younger artists coming up. It they’re getting rid of the their dysert intermediating, right. They’re saying, I’m going to stream on Twitch, or I’m going to, you know, make YouTube shows or whatever it is that they’re doing. But they have discovered that they can make their way in the world without being part of some giant machine, other than the platforms that they’re, you know, involved in. Yes. Which is fascinating, right? Because we did not have that opportunity. 20 years ago.

Arden Leigh 23:04 Yeah, one other thing that is really, really different, right? Mm hmm.

Rob Head 23:08 Yeah. It’s an evolution of opportunity.

Arden Leigh 23:12 Yeah. And I am still like to just to be clear, I’m still not at all a self produced artist. I write my vocal parts. I write my melodies and lyrics, and I have an idea of how I want the song to feel, you know, what, what the energetic signature of it should be?

Rob Head 23:26 So I can collaborate with the band on the rest? Or how do I collaborate

Arden Leigh 23:29 with producers? So I hire producers? Yeah, I hired producers to work with me, and I’ll go to them, and I’ll be like, this is the song that I wrote. And here’s how I’m looking to bring it to life. And, you know, can you can you help me make this basically, so I ended up being sort of like a creative director. And, you know, essentially having final say, because I’m, I’m typically the one you know, paying for, you know, like, the artist. Yeah, right. Exactly. Having that final say, but, but relying on the skill sets of other people because I was just never, I never felt like an insider in any way. In the music industry. You know, I come from a musical theater background. I’m a trained singer. But in terms of audio production, that was always even doing shows like, you know, you’re not Yeah, right. Yeah. Singing into a microphone for the first time was a whole new experience, you know? So, that was a whole new Yeah, just not like learning to not sing for the stage was in itself, you know, it’s its own whole thing. Mm hmm. So, so my decision was basically, um, yeah, I’m going to commit to, I’m going to commit to Arjuna the wolves as a project because if I can make Arden and the wolves successful, I can translate that into video. I can translate it into, you know, potentially moving on into an acting career. You know, I because I have that skill set already. But I don’t want to try and be an actor. I want to try Be a brand where it’s like, oh, we cast Taylor Swift and cats or we cast Dita Von Teese. In this episode of of CSI, or whatever that is.

Rob Head 25:09 Right? Because you have a certain amount of notoriety from your other work. And your your sort of multi. One of our other guests called multi hyphenate. Yeah. Actor singer, you know,

Arden Leigh 25:23 that’s their site. Yeah. Yeah. And how do I make myself valuable beyond just looking like, I’m a jack of all trades and a Master of None? Right?

Rob Head 25:30 Right. Right. For me,

Arden Leigh 25:31 that answer was in music, because it involves writing, it involves performing. And it involves creation of, you know, and performing on stage as well as performing in video. And it involves writing, you know, songwriting. So So creating from that, you know, from that, that zero point, right, creating from that space of originality, yeah, so I decided to commit to that. And then, uh, so I committed to myself as an artist, and it became very clear that if I wanted my career to move as quickly as I wanted it to, right, then I was going to need to find a way to fund my music a lot better, right? Mm hmm. Okay, um, I was gonna need to find a way to move out of, you know, teaching pickup here and there having nightlife gigs, you know, I’m working, like millennial, you know, diversified income, you know, modeling job, right, you’re there. And just regular hustling. I was like, This is not gonna cut it anymore.

Rob Head 26:37 Right. Okay. And the doors open? Yeah. Did you find? Did you find a path?

Arden Leigh 26:42 Well, I did, but I made those doors.

Rob Head 26:48 So tell us about that. So how would you? How would you got someone else to follow that that precedent?

Arden Leigh 26:55 Yeah. So during the space between 2016 and 2018, where I had this awakening, where I realized all of these patterns, you know, and again, I do feel that this, this came from, in many ways, from the intention setting of me saying, you know, on the one hand, okay, here I am committing to myself as an artist, I better actually get my life together and do something, you know, I’ve been just this sort of, again, jack of all trades, master of none for years, and just kind of doing Oh, photoshoot here and talk about this there. And I have all these things that I can do, but no one thing that I’m really committing to. So it came out of that. And it also came out of that again, I I looked at where I was with my relationships, and coming out and saying, if if I let things get this bad, then clearly I don’t know what I’m doing. Right. So from those, those sort of two intentions of just me being like, I need to make some changes. I don’t know what they are, at this point. But I just know that I can’t go about doing things the way that I’ve been doing them. So I moved forward.

Rob Head 27:58 So these these two things are inextricable it seems and and the way you’ve described them, doing the personal work of figuring out, you know, who you are, and what life is about, and committing to yourself as an artist are inextricably bound. That’s the that’s what I’m hearing.

Arden Leigh 28:15 Yeah, and I don’t think I would have known to articulate that at the time, but I just knew, I was just like, Alright, you know, here I am, at this point in my life, and I’m not where I want to be. And I set an intention, I was like, Alright, I want, you know, I want my partnership, I want a healthy relationship. And clearly what I’m doing, the things that I’ve learned are not actually getting me that relationship that I thought that they would, right. And at the same time, you know, yes, that also that desire for stability, and that desire for for self actualization as an artist to that desire to actually commit to myself, right. And so those things sort of brought about a series of events that really mirrored to me, and this is a thing that I teach, the thing that I greatly believe in is that when we set an intention, and we commit to it, and we surrender, right, and we say all right universe, I know nothing Teach me teach me Your ways. Even though we don’t know what that is going to look like. We couldn’t possibly know what that’s gonna look like when we start because if we knew we would be there all we

Rob Head 29:17 knew. Yeah.

Arden Leigh 29:20 Right. But I really, truly believe and I’ve seen evidence of this in my life, I’ve seen it in my clients lives. That when we make that definite commitment, that things start to move and things start to happen that give us all the information that we need to move forward. And that’s what happened for me by about 2018. My EP came out my first EP, I’d released a couple of copies before but this is the first one that I really committed to and put a marketing plan behind and really invested in myself and said, I’m going to take myself seriously as a musical artist. This is no longer just a vanity project. This is something I’m going to add about that time. People started asking me, Arden Would you ever consider putting together a course on what you did for your, your healing? journey?

Rob Head 30:10 It all comes together. Okay, I

Arden Leigh 30:12 know, I promised I was going somewhere.

Rob Head 30:20 Beautiful.

Arden Leigh 30:21 Well, thank you.

Rob Head 30:22 Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us. And

Arden Leigh 30:26 yeah, my pleasure. And just in conclusion, you know, essentially by doing that work and creating the course I basically created a life where I can support myself and I can support my music, and that I can do what I love and wake up to a life that that I love, and continue creating from that place of abundance where I can run my business in a way that supports my music and I can create my music in a way that that hopefully you know, promotes and markets my coaching because it’s it’s the literal incarnation of showing me creating a life that I’m in love with and committing to my dreams so so I think we wrapped that up like just finally. Yes, that last Yeah, I got we got through everything and thank you again Yeah, I know that there’s there’s certainly a lot in my history that is like I like I said, there are many rabbit holes to go down. So thank you for

Rob Head 31:16 your welcome. You’re so welcome. I feel that your particular journey really represents a very common shared dream of like, you know, we want to we want to live our best life and, and for creative folks, that’s usually has to do with, you know, constructing that life consciously, ourselves. So thank you so much for showing us 111 path and, and all the work that you’ve done. Thank you so much.

Arden Leigh 31:44 Absolutely. It’s my pleasure. Thank you so much.

Damien Burke 31:51 The 52 Sketches podcast is a product of 52 Sketches, makers of earlywords.io, daily, private, stream-of-consciousness writing, to clear your mind and unlock your creativity.